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 Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09

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Bonkil

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:59 am

Found this today on the cm forum.. are not able to look at the wmv cause im at work though.

Quote :
Did this twice yesterday with the same group. Champion (on Gurvand), Warden (on the adds), Minstrel, 59 RK (healing), Hunter and Lore-master. Videoed the second kill and may post it later for people who are still struggling with positioning etc, as I deliberately (honest, it was deliberate!) missed loads of clobbers at the start but didn't get knocked off

Had the incoming damage debuff at +80% at the end, but somehow managed to all survive

http://www.filefront.com/14136999/DD_0001.wmv

Quite a big file size as I'm a beginner when it comes to videos. Also my insanely bad play at the start was deliberate *cough*
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:11 am

Okies I watched the video and it looks very solid. Might wanna watch it several times so you can focus on different things.

I could see in the RAT windows that they killed every add that comes in.
I think the hunter switches to gurvand when he is not reflecting and when he is the hunter is on add duty to.
I think LM is prety much a key to this fight to.

note how Gurvand booted the tank upwards and how other where not affected by the aoe must be the positioning.

So looks like we where doing it right at the last fight sortoff.
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:20 pm

The warden seems to be intercepting adds very quickly, leaving the area around the rune stone to do so in the initial stages. Also sticks close to mini when no adds. Makes sense so that the add that drops in on top of group can be picked up straight away.

So on wednesday will we take Rhae instead of Pia? If that's okay with Fi? Not sure if Staz is available. If not we can try with Niko or another RK.

The positioning is interesting, they seem to file in order on one side of the rune stone.

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:07 pm

tactic in vid works acording to Team 1 they only failed due to terid ness of some members so will probely kill him tomorow.

good luck fella's!! Glad we could help out.

Hope our team will get a kill on wednesday!
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Vingilotz

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:20 pm

Yeah, we got him to 2.7 k morale with Miraen (WDN) tanking and me (LRM) and Lio (HNT) on Gurvand and Raladur (CHP) killing all adds with Galadaras (RK) as 2nd healer/dps on adds as well. Mori (MNS) was main healer, focusing on Miraen.

Problem was the 100% extra damage debuff so Miraen wiped at 10k morale of Gurvand.

1. LRM debuffs + raven shadow mitigation help, but you cannot remove shadow reflect by dispelling corruptions - there are other buffs which can be dispelled though
2. someone shout out shadow reflect debuff helps - focus on adds or regen power the duration of the buff
3. positioning like in the vid definately works
4. WDN tanking no probs

2.7k... can't believe it ... it was so frustrating :S

Going to try again tonight - Mori just got home from holiday and dozed away 3x during the fight. So when all sharp I think we have valid tactics to crack this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:58 pm

As I said on The Ranger's forums , Great effort guys! Sincerely hope you get him down. Nice to know that some tactics work well and I'm sure we'll go in with a LM.

cheers

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Gondor! Gondor, between the Mountains and the Sea!
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Fell like bright rain in gardens of the Kings of old.
O proud walls! White towers! O wingéd crown and throne of gold!
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:52 am

Nice job group 1 and good luck for tonight. Kill that bastard! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:37 am

Vingilotz wrote:

I understand you like BRGs, but the difference in (de)buffs is generally that a BRG has tools which make the group hit the mob harder, while the LRM can use his buffs to decrease the damage to the group. That's why I think a LRM is a better crowd controller and useful in most instances.

Also for watcher: I read LRMs reduce his ranged damage by almost 90% if there are no resists for the full debuff.

I disagree with the part of Ving's post now highlighted in bold. To show why and also to help anyone who is planning strategies (or better understand other classes debuffs) here is a great resource:


A comparison of LoTRO debuffs


As this shows Lore-Masters have Lore Masters have 3 debuffs that Reduce Damage (SoP: command, SoP See all ends and Gust of Wind)... but so have Burglars (Disable, Addle, Dust in the Eyes).

Lore Masters have 2 skills to reduce Ranged Damage (Wind Lore (multiple target) and Raven Pet skill distraction) while burglars have 1 (traited enrage) but this burglar skill completely negates ranged on the target mob.

I'm not going to draw any generalise on LM & Burg roles here, just wanted to clarify on something that I felt might mislead anyone who hasn't detailed knowledge of both classes Smile

Named/Boss mobs can be given individual resistances to particular debuffs as part of the game design and it's a painful truth the only way to find out first hand if a particular debuff is effective is to test it against the same named mob in 'virgin state' for comparison.

PS. I can see LM miss-chance occasionally hitting 79%* (subject to the raven pet surviving and it's distraction skill active as well as resists mentioned by Ving) but a 20% mischance in the watcher fight should come from come from Burg skill 'dust in the eyes' and more so if multiple burgs are in the raid due to stacking.

[Edit Don't trust anyone who can confuse Misschance and Reduced incoming ranged damage (me)!]


Last edited by fi on Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:52 am

As this thread seems to have become the chit-chat one as well:

Yep as I wrote at signup any char is fine so np to play my LM (Rhae) tonight. Her gear is at 4 radiance parts so hopefully good enough.

Good luck Ving's team too Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:18 am

Thanks for that link Fi. Very handy to have around. I think both a LM and burglar should be good for Gurvand. The differences are not that big and what burglars lose in debuffing incoming damage they gain by the ability to start conjunctions for say 5xG which will heal a lot.

Fi I think you got that 79% miss chance wrong. The skill distraction reduces the target's ranged damage by -50% and only gives a +10% miss chance. However, the raven can while attacking give a debuff named dizzy which increases miss chance by +15%. Also wind-lore doesn't increase miss chance at all. So unless there are some legacies that increase miss chance the highest is fire-lore +7%, dizzy +15%, distraction +10%, gust of wind +10% = 42% if not taking into account +2% from warding knowledge. 79% would be nice, but totally overpowered. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:50 am

http://rapidshare.com/files/266189520/DD_0001.rar

hope this helps when you got problems downlaoding.
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Wilgo

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:07 am

Thanks Bonk. I could finally download it.

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fi

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:59 am

Wilgo wrote:
Fi I think you got that 79% miss chance wrong.

I did indeed and Ving was speaking of 'reduction of incoming ranged damage' - so scrub that part and kick dirt over it quickly!
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:24 am

Speaking to Janne today online who is still advocating a keeping adds alive strategy. Judging the results from our last foray, does anyone have comments/opinions? I believe we should be deciding on strategy before the run commences and willing to try anything. Just don't believe we should be chopping and changing too much once at Gurvand.

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:22 am

Lets wait for how Team 1 come sout of the fight tonight with a rested team but im 87% sure they will do it.
If thats so, just copy paste.
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:42 am

We can't copy and paste to 100% because group 1 has different classes than us. I think it depends what classes you have available, but keeping adds alive is in my opinion much simpler and keeps the fight shorter as there will be more dps on Gurvand. The only problem last time was that we lacked interuptions on Gurvand and he knocked us off.

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:34 pm

fi wrote:
Vingilotz wrote:

I understand you like BRGs, but the difference in (de)buffs is generally that a BRG has tools which make the group hit the mob harder, while the LRM can use his buffs to decrease the damage to the group. That's why I think a LRM is a better crowd controller and useful in most instances.

Also for watcher: I read LRMs reduce his ranged damage by almost 90% if there are no resists for the full debuff.

I disagree with the part of Ving's post now highlighted in bold. To show why and also to help anyone who is planning strategies (or better understand other classes debuffs) here is a great resource:


A comparison of LoTRO debuffs


As this shows Lore-Masters have Lore Masters have 3 debuffs that Reduce Damage (SoP: command, SoP See all ends and Gust of Wind)... but so have Burglars (Disable, Addle, Dust in the Eyes).

Lore Masters have 2 skills to reduce Ranged Damage (Wind Lore (multiple target) and Raven Pet skill distraction) while burglars have 1 (traited enrage) but this burglar skill completely negates ranged on the target mob.

I'm not going to draw any generalise on LM & Burg roles here, just wanted to clarify on something that I felt might mislead anyone who hasn't detailed knowledge of both classes Smile

Named/Boss mobs can be given individual resistances to particular debuffs as part of the game design and it's a painful truth the only way to find out first hand if a particular debuff is effective is to test it against the same named mob in 'virgin state' for comparison.

You are forgetting the traits: I trait full Ancient Master for Gurvand. And I think the crit debuffs are quite good when playing LRM:

* Force of Will: - 1200 critical hit chance
* SOP see all ends (with force of will slotted): -1920 melee, -1920 ranged, -1920 tactical critcal rating
* Furthermore, warding knowledge also increases miss chance en sensitivity to tactical skills (with AM traited you have extended warding lore, also applies to orcs, men and beasts)

Also, you forgot ancient craft:
* Ancient Craft: -1,620 armour value
And SOP Command is nice on a target as well:
*SOP Command: -557 parry, -480 black, -480 evade / + 20% attack duration

As for the LRM hit/miss chance buffs:
* wind lore: -60% ranged damage / +10% attack duration (with study of wind lore traited)
* raven distraction: - 50% ranged damage / + 10% miss chance
* fire lore: - 30% melee damage / + 7% miss chance (with study of fire lore traited)
* Gust of Wind: + 7 % miss chance


So if I get my usuall debuffs up, I have:
- 110% ranged damage (assuming raven + wind lore stack)
- 30% melee damage
+ 30% attack duration (= -30% any damage)
+ 24% miss chance
- 3100 critical hit chance (on melee ranged and tactical)
- 1620 armour value
-557 parry, -480 block, - 480 evade

Above that, the LRM has 2 x 30 seconds root/stun, taking out adds from the fight and reducing damage that way.
Please note that the above debuffs are valid for an Ancient Master traited LRM.

So I still prefer a LRM, but maybe I'm short sighted playing LRM as a single class for 10 months (rolled my first alt 4 months ago) Razz
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PostSubject: Gurvand down   Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:46 pm



So our tactics:

1) positioning the tank is critical. Right after you enter, there is a runestone to the right. Tank Gurvand with back against the wall (the one you see on the picture).
The debuffer (preferrably LRM) is at Gurvand's back and the minstrel is positioned between the group fighting the adds and the tank.




2. We have a CHP kill the adds asap, with help of a RK, who switches to 2nd healer halfway down the instance with HoTs
3. HNT, LRM and Tank are on Gurvand, when adds are cleared, CHP helps to DPS him down
4. LRM checks shadow reflect debuff and shouts out when on. No attacks during the debuff. Power regen and fight adds.
5. LRM (AM traited) has max debuffs on Gurvand + Raven on. He is 3rd backup healer in emergencies
6. MNS focussing on tank

As long as the tanks has and keeps a good position, the fight is under control. No-one receives kicks except for the tank. Kicks can be interrupted if you are on time.
DPS him down inbetween the shadow reflect buffs - if you kill the adds you even have extra hands to get him down.

Main things to watch: the 100% extra damage debuff (Gurvand's Howling wind in darkness) and tank can get 3-4 nasty debuffs as well - we lost mira 3 times for getting 3-4 k of damage within 5-10 secs.

Galadaras has videoed the run:
Galadaras wrote:
So, here it is - The Dark Delving "The Movie" (Rangers style). We finally got the big bad Gurvande down.. twice! here's a little taste of our epic adventures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLj75-PV9-Q

Enjoy!
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Vingilotz

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:38 pm

Good luck on your run tonight, LB team. I'm pretty confident you'll get him down!
*crosses fingers*

Watcher is not far away now Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:59 pm

Thanks Vingi. Congrats to you and your team. I had a sneaky feeling you'd get there before us! The strategy is most welcome.

cheers

I think maybe we can replicate this approach even if I don't kill the adds as quick as Rala and off tank them a little??????

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:47 am

Wohoo I knew you'd do it and you did it twice to boot. Grats and seems you had good tactics there. Not sure if it'll work for our group but we'll see.

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:20 am

Congrats guys and great job! Let's hope we can follow in your footsteps today.

About today:
1) Bad news: My hard drive curled up and died yesterday. I truly hope I will manage to install my backup drive and all needed stuff before today's run. Keep your fingers crossed.

2) About the adds. I'm definitely for killing them as fast as possible. Let's face it, the strategy of keeping them alive just doesn't work, as our countless tries proved. In case of Steve having trouble with keeping the respawning adds on him, we'll switch places and I'll taunt and AoE their asses off. We're gonna kill that bastards today, guys, whatever it takes.

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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:41 am

As i discussed with Ving yesterday after they killed their first.

I think its even wiser to kill em as they will not come one at a time you have time to dps them down as much as possible before another will pop. This will take alot less dmg than trying to keep agro on all four where youll be contantly battered with blows.

Also once the reflect comes up the ones dpsing gurvand can swithc to some add killing wich will mean in them being faster dead wich preserves power and morale all round the team as its evened out amongst the members of the fellowship.

Further its just a race to get gurvy down asap as the shadow builds and builds.
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:34 am

My advice would be to keep the tank in position all the time. The times we wiped were the times the tank was kicked off the platform.

As long as Gurvand is on a precisely positioned tank, the fight is relatively easy to control. Move the tank = chance of wipe due to kicks.

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Countdown to Gurvand 10/07/09   Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:54 am

I think I didn't make myself clear, Vingi Smile No changing places during the fight, just Steve tanking Gurvand through whole fight and me playing champ and AoEing the adds.

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